[Tfug] ubuntu

Sat Apr 19 11:59:25 MST 2008

Sending this back to this list.

I apologize for getting loose with my terms. I don't want to get 
everyone upset
over loose definitons. Because so many people have noted an apparently unique
set of semantics, I am putting together a definitions page for the project's
website. It has aways to go before it is worth looking at, tho. Perhaps in a
couple of weeks...
(http://www.u.arizona.edu/~sitkaa/Project/Definitions.html)

I think of linux as an operating system. Operating systems, to me, are
fundamental to the social network upon which our modern society is built.
Indeed, infocom systems are perhaps the most fundamental element of society,
and more specifically, the basis of our culture.

(There two sides to infocom systems - information and communication. For
electronic social networks, information would be the bits that are transmitted
about, and communication would the process of transmitting those bits. Simple
'nough.)

(I apologize again for my lack of references in explaining my understanding of
these theories. They are 'deep structure' theories which I don't 
currently have
references for. My textbooks from fifteen years ago are back in N. 
Carolina. If
you want to follow up on this, you might try looking into anthropology.)

My reference to infrastructure in terms of linux was not a reference to the
infrastructure of the network upon which the internet works. Instead, I was
thinking of the network of information exchange and learning places, and the
organizational systems which comprise the open source software movement. This
is the system which may be ovewhelmed with a large influx of people using
linux.

I don't actually know that this system could be overrun, and was just
postulating that this could be true or it might not be. I don't know the
numbers, but will take a stab at it.

There are 360 million people in US alone. If half are part of families and
communities that switch to linux, that gives 180 million. If 30 percent of
those people use computers sufficiently to touch linux, that gives 54 million.
Of those, perhaps 5 - 10 percent will know what they are talking about, 
and the
rest of (us) will be asking stupid questions and making stupid 
comments. Is the
linux infocom system (the soft infrastrucure) prepared for this? I truly don't
know. In the U.S., how many TFUG like places are there for people to ask
questions, how many businesses are set up to field
questions/responses/technical help, how many communities provide support for
linux, how many social networking systems (ISP's etc.) 'support' linux?
If those numbers total to 10,000, then each one would have to deal with 5000
idiots and newbies. If there are 100,000 places where people get help, then
that number is only 500. This is just for the U.S.

If linux (soft infrastructure) is not prepared for such an influx, then 
perhaps
the solution is the same as the cause. Make linux as simple as dirt.

Perhaps I am daf, I am sure many of you think this by now, but I don't know so
much, and there is so much to learn. In light of all the discourse in this
thread, I booted up Ubuntu again away from the University. It found and
connected to an unsecure network (at Time Market) without much help, which is
good because I don't think I coulda figured out how to connect otherwise. Here
at the Univesity, where I am working on a weekend : (, I can't get Ubuntu to
connect to the UAWiFi network. I have spent at least a half hour fiddling with
it and came up clueless. The Windows systems just work. I wish I could use
linux exclusively, but I gotta be able to connect. That is the most important
aspect of this whole computer thingy system - infocom.

So I quickly looked over RedHat's offerings. I have picked up their boxes in
bookstores before, but didn't jump because they didn't offer anything I
couldn't get for free. What I was looking for was an install disk that was
pre-set up for my T61p, or my Dell at home, or the T41, or the Gateway I used
to have, etc.

https://www.redhat.com/apps/store/desktop/

So I googled linux laptops and found the ThinkWiki site. It is really helpful,
but again, there is nothing like what I was looking for. Instead, there
instructions on how to change the 'code' of linux to get the oerating 
system to
work on the laptop.

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Installing_Ubuntu_7.10_(Gutsy_Gibbon)_Release_Candidate_on_a_ThinkPad_T61

What was I looking for? A company or a group that offers versions of linux
preconfigured for my computer. A version that doesn't require me to operate
code to get the thingy to work right. A simple as dirt. How hard is that? I
don't know. Certainly, if someone were to build upon this concept, they would
come. Tell me that this isn't possible, and I will respond that it is 
possible.
All that it requires is that we do it.

Anyway, these are my two Ameros.

Michael

Quoting Judd Pickell <pickell at gmail.com>:

> Again, not sure where the social services for 'nix would be
> overwhelmed? Can you qualify that with some data?
>
> On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 6:10 PM,  <sitkaa at email.arizona.edu> wrote:
>> Apologies, by infrastrucutre I was referring to social services as well as
>>  technological.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Quoting Judd Pickell <pickell at gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>> > "Such an influx of people into this system
>> > would overwhelm your infrastructure." <--- ???
>> >
>> > Sorry but I don't think I am the only one that is going to look at
>> > this and basically scream at their screen. I mean seriously, have you
>> > been reading what everyone has been saying? There isn't a chance in
>> > hell that the linux "infrastructure" could be overwhelmed given that
>> > most of the world that provides the infrastructure is already running
>> > linux. The "infrastructure" is as open and varied as the linux or open
>> > source world is. There are, in my opinion, more available resources
>> > for linux, unix and it's derivatives than there are for Windows. Now I
>> > maybe biased as I actually spend time googling for answers for both
>> > windows and linux systems, and the one I find the most results for are
>> > linux and not windows.
>> >
>> > There are more user groups out there for linux than windows, I am sure of
>> that.
>> >
>> > Seriously, are you for real? I was willing to give you the benefit of
>> > the doubt before, and though maybe the troll arguments were a bit over
>> > the top and not necessarily deserved. However, you can't seem to keep
>> > the proverbial foot out of the mouth. I just hope that this is truely
>> > a newbish thing and not a "my view of the world is the only view, and
>> > I am going to let others know it" type of thing.
>> >
>> > Go Read up on what you are commenting on, do some research, take some
>> > notes... Stop posting until you have done that or I fear that you may
>> > anger the more calm folks on this list..
>> >
>> > Sincerely,
>> > Judd Pickell
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 4:56 PM,  <sitkaa at email.arizona.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Does anybody do this for Linux or the BSD's? That is provide custom
>> > >  install CD's
>> > >  for particular machines. I didn't think anybody did because they
>> > >  thought it was
>> > >  economic unrecoupable.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >  > And that's with an install CD customized for the target machine.
>> It's
>> > >  > much worse when one installs from a generic install CD, then has to
>> go
>> > >  > searching for appropriate drivers.
>> > >  >
>> > >  > --
>> > >  > John
>> > >  >
>> > >  > _______________________________________________
>> > >  > Tucson Free Unix Group - tfug at tfug.org
>> > >  > Subscription Options:
>> > >  > http://www.tfug.org/mailman/listinfo/tfug_tfug.org
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >  Anyway, all I really want to do is figure out how to provide a helping
>> > >  hand for
>> > >  everyone. Making linux easier to install, with all the drivers already
>> set-up
>> > >  and whatnot custom for each machine, this would help push linux over
>> the top.
>> > >  So would having it do everything that windows can do, but easier, this
>> is how
>> > >  to make linux better. Linux could easily be the dominant OS. The is
>> actually
>> > >  very little momentum in the software world, especially when so many
>> things in
>> > >  the open source world are gifts of effort, freely given for the good of
>> all.
>> > >
>> > >  Should everyone decide to work on a single project to 'save the world'
>> in one
>> > >  organized great social change, they would do with linux. I would hope
>> that the
>> > >  linux world is prepared for that. Such an influx of people into this
>> system
>> > >  would overwhelm your infrastructure. Constantly dealing with newcomers
>> like me
>> > >  who argue about the fine points and complain about it being
>> > >  difficult..................................
>> > >
>> > >  Making it as simple as possible is really the only solution.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >  _______________________________________________
>> > >  Tucson Free Unix Group - tfug at tfug.org
>> > >  Subscription Options:
>> > >  http://www.tfug.org/mailman/listinfo/tfug_tfug.org
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Tucson Free Unix Group - tfug at tfug.org
>> > Subscription Options:
>> > http://www.tfug.org/mailman/listinfo/tfug_tfug.org
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>