[Tfug] Cheap Memory

Sat Dec 22 13:16:07 MST 2007

I like DSL and Puppy Linux.  The concept is great.  Do I use them no.  I have one server that emulates the web for development that is LAMP.  I am able to set the doc root for each site to a TLD of .dev so the sites are only viewable local.  It is on a private IP and I added Samba so I can edit the code directly on the server.  I connect with an XP box and use PSPad to edit my code.  With the addition of the site.dev in my windows host file I can see the changes in my browser in real time.

I said all that to say this.  I would have to have worked way too hard and way to long configuring DSL or Puppy to do what I want to do.  All I did was download Fedora and do an install on an older Dell I have and used the GUI to configure what I wanted except Apache which I shell in to manage.

If I had to configure that box today it would take 3 to 5 hours to do so.  Given my lack of knowledge and lack of need to become a "real" Linux admin, I would have had to spend maybe several days configuring Puppy or DSL to do what I want.

I get paid to program not support my hardware.  That brings up another point.  I replaced my wife's then 2.5 year old Dell with a new Dell running Vista so I could have her old Dell to replace my 7 year old 500Mhtz/384Mb RAM server because I need reliability.  

I plan to buy another box in 2008 to replace my now 3 year old server just to make sure I am on newer, faster hardware (I expect will be more reliable).  I do plan on keeping the 3 year old box as a backup.

So the decisions have been simply based on need.  I can't see running truely old hardware in a production environment.

As a novelty running an AMD500 with DSL or Puppy is really cool.  I think this is a great way to learn also.  Taking it one step further how about building your own Linux from scratch?

johngalt1 <johngalt1 at uswest.net> wrote: 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Claude Rubinson" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Tfug] Cheap Memory

> On Mon, Dec 17, 2007 at 07:18:07PM -0700, johngalt1 wrote:
>> I'd say that coder was lazy, incompetent, or incredibly
>> self-centered. The jist of it is that the coder can crap
>> out
>> an un-optimized POS. Then, if the user has a problem
>> running
>> the app, their hardware needs upgrading. (they need to
>> pay
>> more money to make the app work)
>>
>> In economics class they called that an externalized cost
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_cost#Negative_externalities_of_production
>
> It's not actually that simple.  The company is going to
> need to pay
> more money to make the app work either way.  Remember:
> "good, fast,
> cheap: pick 2."  It's all a cost/benefit analysis.  Good,
> well-designed and coded software costs more money to
> produce.  There
> may be times when it's cheaper to throw hardware at the
> problem rather
> than pay for good software.

What is this "the company" reference. This thread started
out using Windows as an example. When MS sells crappy
bloatware that I must pay extra for RAM to make it work, (eg
Vista) it is an externalized cost: that simple.

> If I recall correctly, Google simply
> replaces bad servers rather than fixing them because the
> hardware is
> cheaper than the man-power.  I'm not saying that's right
> or wrong but
> it is rational from a cost/benefit analysis.

I don't follow how this example relates to the
hardware-software tradeoff.
(BTW) does anyone know how one could buy these servers where
Google's labor costs make them too expensive to repair?

If Google replaces servers instead of fixing them, that
sounds eco-foolish.

> Externalized costs are only a problem when they're
> externalized.  That
> is to say, party A is able to put its costs onto part B.
> That's not
> what's happening in the above example.

What above example? After reviewing the previous posts in
the thread, that comment sounds nonsequitur.

> In the above example, the
> company is making a informed, rational choice and all the
> costs are
> internal.  (I'm assuming here that the software was
> developed in-house
> OR that the purchased software lived up to expectations.)

That's my issue. At this point, it looks like the arguement
changed .

> The
> conditions that promote negative externalities are things
> such as weak
> gov't regulation (think pollution), monopoly (PC users
> have no choice
> but to upgrade their systems in order to run the latest
> version of
> Windows), deception, etc (basically, what economists refer
> to as
> "market imperfections.")

Even if you use the app written-in-house premise, there are
external costs when viewed in terms department budgets for
the "throw some RAM at it" scenario. Example: engineering
wrote a POS (fast, cheap) app, so the production division
budget takes a hit for all the PC upgrades that must occur.

If anyone thinks lots of RAM is necessary in this age,
consider distros like Damn Small Linux (sorry Kieth) or
Puppy Linux. In these optimalized distros, the bloatware
libraries and unnecessary code has been stripped off .

I have a P1-133 laptop with 48MB of RAM. It is still usable
with DSL.

>
> Claude
>
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>
>
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------------------------
Keith Smith
(480) 584-4772
PHP Programming

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