[Tfug] Sick!

[Gregory Gray]

Wow...........

It's wild how in information technology.... it's the
information part that's hard to come by.

Thanks for the feedback.... I'll remember that I'm
lucky..... ;-)

And, hey, maybe I'll brush up on JAVA after all and
try topcoder.........

Regards,
Greg
--- Leo Przybylski <leo@leosandbox.org> wrote:
> That's true. Some project managers actually enjoy
> making the mistake of 
> adding as many developers to a project as possible
> to get it finished 
> sooner (thus saving in expenses). All it really does
> is increase 
> expenditures exponentially proportionate to how many
> developers you pile 
> onto the project. It's too funny to hear about.
> 
> When I worked in Austin, I worked for a company that
> outsourced from 
> India and Malaysia. Those numbers are not unfamiliar
> in the company I 
> was working for. On top of the living expenses,
> corporate housing was 
> also supplied (so why the living expenses I asked
> myself).
> 
> I wish I had the fortune you have had. When I worked
> for Automation 
> Centre in Tucson, the owner (a salesman not a
> project manager) was upset 
> that he had paid several thousand (not all to me)
> for 2 months work and 
> his groupware application was only near finished and
> not completely. I 
> tried to explain to him, but he was only concerned
> with my time spent on 
> it. I can't imagine what "peanuts" these guys must
> be getting if what I 
> was getting at Automation Center was too pricy.
> 
> Anyway, if you are concerned about coding for cash,
> that's what TopCoder 
> is about anymore. It used to be a competition to
> make a name for 
> yourself as the fastest with the best quality, but
> more than that 
> anymore they have started using members to develop
> components and 
> applications. You get paid a few hundred for each
> component and about a 
> thousand for each application depending on whether
> you develop the 
> component/application or design it (yes they pay for
> them seperately). 
> They promise royalties, so if anyone uses it, you
> get a kickback. They 
> only use the best design/code though. So, you have
> to actually compete 
> for it. This ensures they're giving their clients
> the very best 
> code/design they possibly can. Very nice. They have
> a scoring system I 
> use to introduce code reviews to layman programmers.
> 
> -Leo Przybylski
> 
> Gregory Gray wrote:
> > Hi Leo.... I should have known you'd jump on this
> one
> > :-)
> > 
> > I'm afraid it's not the outsourcing that gets my
> > goat.... maybe I'm just a little naive in the
> software
> > world, but here's what stuns me:
> > 
> > 25 people on site in New Mexico at $2000/month
> living
> > expenses + wages and another 80 in India...... my
> > word!!!!! What on earth could you need 100+ people
> to
> > do to put together "an online unemployment-claims
> > system".
> > 
> > Solo -- as in just me -- I designed, implemented
> and
> > maintain 2 online registration systems for traffic
> > school here and in Santa Ana California. Those
> systems
> > maintain about 1/2 million student records each in
> > MySQL databases and they allow around 15 operators
> to
> > process new registrations, completions, and
> changes
> > through a PHP based web interface to the tune of
> 500+
> > calls per day. They also allow students to
> > self-register at a website and courts to view
> records
> > through yet another web interface.... not to drag
> on,
> > the point being that it was all created from an
> > original Access 97 database with about 1200
> > work-hours.
> > 
> > Now, granted, my system may be a bit less complex
> than
> > the system in question..... but hundreds of times
> less
> > complex? 
> > 
> > I'm amazed by the industry tendency to spend
> hundreds
> > of times more money on systems simply because they
> > carry some seemingly anointed, and in my opinion
> > false, superiority. It seems to me to be the
> single
> > greatest obstacle for the Open Source movement to
> > overcome.
> > 
> > So to your question of alternative outsourcing
> > solutions -> In my opinion, we obviously need
> > something other than Carnegie Mellon University to
> > provide testing and validation of software
> quality. I
> > wonder what the SEI rating for Microsoft is
> > considering that I ejected a zip disc from a Win2k
> > Small Business Server last night and inserted
> another
> > to find that the "uncrashable" did not crash....
> it
> > simply froze.... I think it was because I didn't
> log
> > in before making the switch.
> > 
> > Anyway....
> > 
> > I'll check into the topcoder site. I've seen it
> > before... but have been too busy trying to make
> money
> > to participate -- after all, I have to admit
> that's
> > why I code.... it pays the bills. :-)
> > 
> > Any other feelings, criticism, suggestions,
> insights,
> > etc. as always cheerfully and open-mindedly
> accepted.
> > 
> > Greg  
> > 
> > --- Leo Przybylski <leo@leosandbox.org> wrote:
> > 
> >>Well, I (and I'm sure a lot of others) have seen
> >>this happening since 
> >>before the dot bomb. Though the news of overseas
> >>outsourcing progression 
> >>is news, that it has been happening for the last
> few
> >>years and has had a 
> >>large impact on our economy and the recession
> isn't
> >>really.
> >>
> >>I had no idea that even the government was in
> >>support of outsourcing 
> >>like that. At the U of A, isn't it common practice
> >>to support internal 
> >>resources before outsourcing? Even if the internal
> >>resources are pricy, 
> >>I've never known any department here to be
> >>unreasonable to the point 
> >>where you couldn't haggle a little. It's true what
> >>they said in New 
> >>Mexico that government is expected to be run like
> a
> >>business, but that 
> >>includes politics. It's inescapable. Corporate and
> >>educational 
> >>institutions alike have their own politics. I
> think
> >>it's pretty dumb to 
> >>use the "business model" as an excuse for "selling
> >>out".
> >>
> >>I was wondering what people think of alternative
> >>outsourcing practices 
> >>like topcoder.com. Anyone think that they have the
> >>proper strategy for 
> >>advancing on companies with advantages of TCS?
> >>
> >>-Leo Przybylski
> >>
> >>Gregory Gray wrote:
> >>
>
>>>AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!
> >>>
> >>>I mean
> >>
> >>AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >>
> >>>$6 million for what I bet is a one page form that
> >>>populates a flat file style database sometime
> >>
> >>between
> >>
> >>>now and next Christmas because it's written in
> >>
> 
=== message truncated ===


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