[Tfug] Sick!
Leo Przybylski
tfug@tfug.org
Wed Mar 19 11:36:01 2003
That's true. Some project managers actually enjoy making the mistake of
adding as many developers to a project as possible to get it finished
sooner (thus saving in expenses). All it really does is increase
expenditures exponentially proportionate to how many developers you pile
onto the project. It's too funny to hear about.
When I worked in Austin, I worked for a company that outsourced from
India and Malaysia. Those numbers are not unfamiliar in the company I
was working for. On top of the living expenses, corporate housing was
also supplied (so why the living expenses I asked myself).
I wish I had the fortune you have had. When I worked for Automation
Centre in Tucson, the owner (a salesman not a project manager) was upset
that he had paid several thousand (not all to me) for 2 months work and
his groupware application was only near finished and not completely. I
tried to explain to him, but he was only concerned with my time spent on
it. I can't imagine what "peanuts" these guys must be getting if what I
was getting at Automation Center was too pricy.
Anyway, if you are concerned about coding for cash, that's what TopCoder
is about anymore. It used to be a competition to make a name for
yourself as the fastest with the best quality, but more than that
anymore they have started using members to develop components and
applications. You get paid a few hundred for each component and about a
thousand for each application depending on whether you develop the
component/application or design it (yes they pay for them seperately).
They promise royalties, so if anyone uses it, you get a kickback. They
only use the best design/code though. So, you have to actually compete
for it. This ensures they're giving their clients the very best
code/design they possibly can. Very nice. They have a scoring system I
use to introduce code reviews to layman programmers.
-Leo Przybylski
Gregory Gray wrote:
> Hi Leo.... I should have known you'd jump on this one
> :-)
>
> I'm afraid it's not the outsourcing that gets my
> goat.... maybe I'm just a little naive in the software
> world, but here's what stuns me:
>
> 25 people on site in New Mexico at $2000/month living
> expenses + wages and another 80 in India...... my
> word!!!!! What on earth could you need 100+ people to
> do to put together "an online unemployment-claims
> system".
>
> Solo -- as in just me -- I designed, implemented and
> maintain 2 online registration systems for traffic
> school here and in Santa Ana California. Those systems
> maintain about 1/2 million student records each in
> MySQL databases and they allow around 15 operators to
> process new registrations, completions, and changes
> through a PHP based web interface to the tune of 500+
> calls per day. They also allow students to
> self-register at a website and courts to view records
> through yet another web interface.... not to drag on,
> the point being that it was all created from an
> original Access 97 database with about 1200
> work-hours.
>
> Now, granted, my system may be a bit less complex than
> the system in question..... but hundreds of times less
> complex?
>
> I'm amazed by the industry tendency to spend hundreds
> of times more money on systems simply because they
> carry some seemingly anointed, and in my opinion
> false, superiority. It seems to me to be the single
> greatest obstacle for the Open Source movement to
> overcome.
>
> So to your question of alternative outsourcing
> solutions -> In my opinion, we obviously need
> something other than Carnegie Mellon University to
> provide testing and validation of software quality. I
> wonder what the SEI rating for Microsoft is
> considering that I ejected a zip disc from a Win2k
> Small Business Server last night and inserted another
> to find that the "uncrashable" did not crash.... it
> simply froze.... I think it was because I didn't log
> in before making the switch.
>
> Anyway....
>
> I'll check into the topcoder site. I've seen it
> before... but have been too busy trying to make money
> to participate -- after all, I have to admit that's
> why I code.... it pays the bills. :-)
>
> Any other feelings, criticism, suggestions, insights,
> etc. as always cheerfully and open-mindedly accepted.
>
> Greg
>
> --- Leo Przybylski <leo@leosandbox.org> wrote:
>
>>Well, I (and I'm sure a lot of others) have seen
>>this happening since
>>before the dot bomb. Though the news of overseas
>>outsourcing progression
>>is news, that it has been happening for the last few
>>years and has had a
>>large impact on our economy and the recession isn't
>>really.
>>
>>I had no idea that even the government was in
>>support of outsourcing
>>like that. At the U of A, isn't it common practice
>>to support internal
>>resources before outsourcing? Even if the internal
>>resources are pricy,
>>I've never known any department here to be
>>unreasonable to the point
>>where you couldn't haggle a little. It's true what
>>they said in New
>>Mexico that government is expected to be run like a
>>business, but that
>>includes politics. It's inescapable. Corporate and
>>educational
>>institutions alike have their own politics. I think
>>it's pretty dumb to
>>use the "business model" as an excuse for "selling
>>out".
>>
>>I was wondering what people think of alternative
>>outsourcing practices
>>like topcoder.com. Anyone think that they have the
>>proper strategy for
>>advancing on companies with advantages of TCS?
>>
>>-Leo Przybylski
>>
>>Gregory Gray wrote:
>>
>>>AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>>I mean
>>
>>AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>>$6 million for what I bet is a one page form that
>>>populates a flat file style database sometime
>>
>>between
>>
>>>now and next Christmas because it's written in
>>
>>JAVA.
>>
>>>AND.... the New Mexico Unemployment Department
>>
>>doesn't
>>
>>>even own the rights -> Tata is reselling to other
>>>agencies for increased profit!
>>>
>>>AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!
>>>
>>>I want to say more, but
>>>AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
>>>--- klsmith <ksmith@dakotacom.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Anyone look at this?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
> http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20030316S0003
>
>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>>>Keith Smith
>>>>(520) 358-2138
>>>>http://www.TucsonCarSales.com/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>tfug mailing list
>>>>tfug@tfug.org
>>>>https://www.tfug.org/mailman/listinfo/tfug
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>=====
>>>
>>>Greg Gray greg@getnetez.com www.getnetez.com
>>>
>>>---------------------------------
>>>
>>>Get Net Ez, Tucson AZ, provides network
>>
>>consultation and design services. We specialize in
>>database driven website design using PHP and MySQL.
>>Other services include Starband satellite internet
>>service, Linux networking, and CISCO configuration.
>>
>>>---------------------------------
>>>
>>>
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>
>
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