[Tfug] warchalking

klsmith tfug@tfug.org
Sat Jun 29 12:01:10 2002


Now you have a additional arguement if the Gov comes down on you.  You 
can always say you thought you were on Derbe's LANs.  :)

Keith


Derbe wrote:

> As far I can tell, my TOS says that I can't sell access to others.  It 
> doesn't mention anything about giving it away for free.  I'm sure it 
> will have some provision in the future for sharing.
>
> My address?  
> C'mon, that would take all the fun out of  the hunt.
>
>
>
> johngalt wrote:
>
>>>If I chalk my own residence, is that okay?
>>>    
>>>
>>It's ok wih me. But, it might not be ok with your bandwidth supplier
>>if you read their TOS.
>>
>>If you are feeling that genrerous, what's your address, or what's the 
>>nearest cross street to your place?
>>
>>Derbe wrote:
>>  
>>
>>>I haven't read any replies from anyone that actually says that they have
>>>wireless setup.  I have wireless at my house and I make the choice to
>>>share or not to share based on what I'm doing at any particular time.
>>> If I don't want to share, I turn on WEP.  When I'm gone for a period of
>>>time I turn it off, to share it.  It doesn't matter to me if someone
>>>uses it.  I don't consider it stealing as it will still be there when I
>>>get home.  If I got billed per kilobyte, that would be a different
>>>story.  So, I don't know how I would let anyone know that it's okay to
>>>use my wireless unless I just turn off WEP.
>>>
>>>If I chalk my own residence, is that okay?
>>>
>>>Derbe
>>>Tyler Kilian wrote:
>>>
>>>    
>>>
>>>>At 09:25 AM 6/28/02 -0700, Nicolas Lopez wrote:
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, Jun 28, 2002 at 07:32:20AM -0700, Tyler Kilian wrote:
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>>Bowie:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We've had our ups and downs, but let me say, for what it's
>>>>>>          
>>>>>>
>>>>>worth...you hit
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>>the nail right on the head with this one.  In fact, you used a
>>>>>>          
>>>>>>
>>>>>nailgun.
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>>A few things, that I know specifically:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1) There are laws governing the use of home-made antennaes
>>>>>>          
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>>  And there are laws governing how long you can spend in the bathroom at
>>>>>Sizler before they send to cops in to pull you out. Just because
>>>>>there are
>>>>>laws it doesn't mean they say anything meaningful.
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sure, it's like Sizzler.  Just like at Sizzler, if someone pushes the
>>>>issue, you can be in trouble.  The whole point of the laws is not what
>>>>happns if nobody cares to prosecute or investigate, the point is what
>>>>happens if someone finds out and decides to press that issue.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>>>2) The expectation of privacy exists with most wireless devices of this
>>>>>>type.
>>>>>>          
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>>  The expectation of safety exists with idiot leaving their cars unlocked
>>>>>just because they think they live in a "good" neighborhood too.
>>>>>Neither have
>>>>>much of a connection to reality.
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That's a lot like blaming the victim of a violent crime. "Well, he was
>>>>in a bad area of town after dark, it's his fault."  True, you need to
>>>>take precuations, but that doesn't mean that someone breaking a law is
>>>>exempted from responsibility.  If you leave your car open and someone
>>>>steals your linux sticker, that is theft.  Period.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>>>3) Attempting to procure a lease *is* accessing a network without
>>>>>>authorization.
>>>>>>          
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>>  No, attempting to procure a lease, by definition, is ASKING for
>>>>>authorization to access the network. DHCP OFFER is analogous to you
>>>>>welcoming a hobo knocking at your door in for dinner.
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>No, because you are tying up bandwidth, processor cycles, and then
>>>>potentially an IP.  If you came into my office without permission and
>>>>plugged into a switch and tried to gain an IP address, that would be
>>>>accessing my network without permission, as well as potential
>>>>tresspass, etc.  Just because it is wireless and not physically secure
>>>>does not mean that the same rules regarding access do not apply.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>>>4) If you try and crack WEP, this is circumventing security further
>>>>>>          
>>>>>>
>>>>>and has
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>>>   all sorts of other "hacking" and encryption laws behind it.\
>>>>>>          
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>>  Well duh, that's why nobody mentioned cracking WEP.
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>Just a potential item of contention, that's all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>>>A bad anology to this is scanning.  There is nothing illegal about
>>>>>>listening to
>>>>>>radio transmissions.  If you try and join in--then it's a crime.
>>>>>>          
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>>  There's nothing illigal about going door-to-door looking for charity
>>>>>either.
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>Unless a no-trespassing sign is posted.  You can't ignore the intent
>>>>either.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, you'll do what you want and try to justify the non-criminal
>>>>element of it.  If you war drive the wrong place, however, don't be
>>>>too surprised if the response you get is "tell it to the judge."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>># Tyler Kilian, CCNP
>>>># Technology Director, Dakota Communications
>>>># TKilian@DakotaCom.NET | 520.745.3900 x 100
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
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>>>    
>>>
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>>  
>>
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