[Tfug] Cheap Memory = Lardy Men = UofA Comp Sci Program

[Anthony Hess]

Thats an unfortunate byproduct of a research university - that is where many
professors are focused when you are in any scientific/engineering/computer
area.
The theory versus practical work is actually an area where I prefer the
theory.  There are a lot of folks out there that don't think a university
should be teaching C or C# or Java at all.  There are valid points on each
side of the argument - two different approaches is all.

Tony

On Dec 22, 2007 9:58 AM, Jeffry Johnston <tfug at kidsquid.com> wrote:

> Yeah.. I actually learned most of my good coding habits BEFORE I even got
> to
> college.  Write enough programs on your own and eventually you start to
> realize what code sucks and what code doesn't.  I even learned structured
> coding with Basic, for crying out loud.  When a program gets big and
> complicated enough, if the code is bad the project eventually aborts
> itself.  Natural selection, or perhaps just self awareness?  Programming
> is
> something I enjoy doing, though. Plenty (most) of the other students just
> did their assignments, and that's it.  The rest of their time was
> partying,
> dating, hanging out, etc.  On group projects I tried to work with the ones
> that enjoying coding, because invariably I'd learn things from them.
>
> But, I did learn some things at Pima CC.  Had good Java and data
> structures
> classes there, because the instructors actually cared.  U of A was pretty
> much a waste of time (and money, but not that much.. good thing I
> qualified
> for financial aid!).  My favorite class at the U of A was compilers with
> Debray.  My best experience was working on the Stork project in Python at
> an
> undergrad researcher.  Got to teach myself a new language, started running
> Ubuntu, and I still use Python to this day.
>
> The U of A kept talking about wanting to teach theory and concepts.. not
> languages.  I took C# and C++ at the U of A, but they hardly wanted to
> even
> count it towards the major.  Pretty lame.  Most of the professors didn't
> care about teaching, just about getting grants, etc.
>
> Of course, when you are trying to get a job, the U of A is wonderful,
> right?
> ;)  You just leave off the fact that you were a good coder before you even
> went to college.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> On Dec 21, 2007 9:56 PM, Bowie J. Poag <bpoag at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > void myOpinion (void)
> > {
> >
> > // I'm not the best coder in the world. Yeah, I know, unbelievable. :)
> > But here's my $0.02, as someone who has to do it for a living:
> >
> > I would agree... When I attended U of A about 7-8 years ago, their Comp
> > Sci program was kind of lame. I felt at the time that it didn't go very
> > far toward preparing students for real-world coding. In retrospect, I
> > was right.. They didn't prepare us for real-world coding, nor did they
> > emphasize good coding habits, or even begin to teach topics such as
> > what's good coding philosophy, what open source is, everything that
> > everyone knew was going to be commonplace in the future. They touched on
> > none of it. It was more like "Oh, it runs? Great! A+ for you. Next?"  I
> > would have preferred it be something more along the lines of "Oh, it
> > works? Great. You get a D+. Now go make your RPN calculator applet
> > lightweight, so it doesn't require 39MB to run on this machine. If you
> > can do it in a memory footprint of less than (x) and still keep it
> > readable, you get an A."
> >
> > /* Speculation:  I think their biggest problem can be boiled down to one
> > word: Java. Like alot of other Universities with their dick stuck in Sun
> > Microsystem's mousetrap, they were slowly talked into folding Java into
> > their curriculum... eventually, enough pillow talk got them to ditch C
> > and shape their entire curriculum around it.  They bet the farm on the
> > industry moving toward OO, and in particular, Java. */
> >
> > Simple procedural programming is still the dominant method of getting
> > stuff done, not OO.. For most things, OO is exactly what it appears to
> > be. Unnecessary, time-consuming, slow, bloaty overkill. My time as a
> > student would have been better spent learning how to be a better
> > procedural coder, and THEN open the door to OO concepts later. I mean,
> > what good is it learn how to carry around an OO-centric 300 pound Swiss
> > Army Knife with 117 different attachments (of which you'll only use
> > maybe 2), when all you really need is common sense?  Ditch the knife and
> > use your head, for cryin' out loud. Don't teach me WHAT to think--Teach
> > me HOW to think. How do I make my code fast AND readable? How do I
> > collaborate with others?  How can I be more strategic in my approach to
> > problem solving? What does it mean to write truly portable, streamlined,
> > orthogonal code? How do I maintain my code over it's lifespan? I got
> > none of that at UofA, sadly.
> >
> > Ugh... and to make matters still worse, UofA relegated assembly language
> > to the CE track, and away from CS, which in my book, is criminal. Sad,
> > and criminal. Worse, they tried to line up SML/NJ in it's place, like it
> > taught the same concepts.. good lord..
> >
> > vomit(UofA);
> >
> > exit();
> >
> > }
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jude Nelson wrote:
> > > I agree--coders should be forced to learn on low, low-end hardware
> > > (even if only in a VM) and earn the privilage of using faster, better
> > > systems.  That's how I learned--I started Basic and asssembler on a
> > > TI-83+ graphing calculator (23k RAM, 16 MHz Zilog z80 [8-bit], 1.5 MB
> > > flash ROM), and moved to C on a TI-89 graphing calculator (191k RAM,
> > > 12 MHz Motorola 68k processor, 300k flash ROM, 32k code segments [the
> > > 68k has a 16-bit data bus but was 32-bit internally]), and moved to
> > > Palm OS devices (wow!  a whole megabyte of heap space!), and then
> > > finally to PCs.
> > >
> > > And how does the U of A teach CS students to code?  With a 16 GB
> > > quad-core 64-bit server, with Java 5 of course!  Seriously, how do you
> > > even *use* that much horsepower?  My dual-core laptop with 2 GB RAM is
> > > only justified in that I need to be able to do my homework off-line
> > > (oh, and show Compiz Fusion to those foolish enough to think Vi$ta is
> > > the Second Coming).
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Jude Nelson
> > >
> >
> >
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