[Tfug] 2 weeks of Hackintosh fun..

[Bowie J. Poag]

Shawn Nock wrote:
>
> | Well, we aren't exactly talking "HAY GUYS GO HERE AND DOWNLOAD THIS 
> L33T
> | ISO MAKE UR OWN HACKINTOSH DEHHHH"... OS X != Darwin. Darwin is a free,
> | open-source, POSIX-compliant BSD hybrid.
>
> Thanks for the wikipedia quote. You don't run "free, open source" Darwin.
>
I don't recall being rude to you..But i'll answer you anyway.

http://lists.apple.com/archives/Darwinos-users/2007/Oct/msg00002.html

Read, enjoy, and have a nice day now that you know Darwin's source code 
is free. To help you get back on the handle you flew off of, I'd 
encourage you to read a little further. Darwin isn't a "corpse", no more 
than Linux was a "corpse" in '98.. Different kernels are actively being 
developed off of Darwin, each being used as a bed for OS X.  The only 
"problem" here is that the number of kernel-specific dependencies in OS 
X will grow with time. It's up to developers to match pace with them... 
which doesn't seem to be a problem, considering I have 4 or 5 Darwin 9.5 
kernels right now capable of running OS X 10.5.5.

> FOSS Darwin can't practically be compiled or used because of the
> proprietary bits Apple has neglected to release.
Not true. Again, Darwin != OS X, no more than Linux = KDE.

> So, Darwin is far from
> free... you must purchase the "whole package" from the vendor to do
> anything with it (....)
>
Again, I don't have to purchase anything to run Darwin. It's free. Roll 
your own, if you like.. That's what we did in the early days of Linux.

http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/

> ~  1. Choose the free version, it is intentionally crippled
> ~  2. Buy the working version, get only binaries.
>
I'm not sure where you're getting your information.... I'm guessing 
you're referring to Apple's APSL licensed code. APSL is basically the 
same as BSD licensing, the only difference is you preserve authorship to 
Apple for any derivative works, and relieve Apple of any responsibility 
or warranty for your modifications... Which is what people should be 
doing anyway.




> If we are comparing Linux to Darwin on the FOSS versions. Linux wins by
> virtue of compiling and booting.

If you're having trouble getting Darwin to boot, use Google. It's a 
great little search engine. It's been a while since i've had to boot, 
but I can assure you it works just fine. :)



>
> Someday some bright people may flesh out the corpse of Darwin into
> something useful... but today Darwin is useless.
I'm using it to write this Email.

>
>
> I assume we are talking about the OS you are currently running on your
> laptop. It is Unix... it is not Free Unix. Much of the kernel code on
> your current OS, was *not* opened later.
>
Apple opened the code up about 7 years ago.  Ontop of that, there are 
FreeBSD and NetBSD goodies which have always been free. Again, OS X != 
Darwin. Apple has a right to keep OS X proprietary, and i'm kinda glad 
it is, actually. Works for me.


> The kernel Apple uses for OS X is different (XNU, I think)
>
> It has a different name, but it's Darwin... with the ability to
> successfully compile (Apple has the missing 'proprietary' bits).
Where do you get this idea?

>
> | ..And I certainly plead guilty to the murky legal implications of
> | running a Hackintosh. The only thing "murky" is whether or not I choose
> | to buy an OS X license from Apple or not.
>
> Even if you buy a license... you are are in violation of the license
> agreement. You are infringing on your license by choosing a different
> hardware vendor. Simplified, you are now (and for the foreseeable
> future) infringing on Apple's "intellectual property" and legally liable
> for this. That doesn't sound free or open.
>
Huh?

I've read Apple's EULA for OS X.  To my knowledge, there's nothing in it 
that says running OS X on non-Apple hardware violates the EULA. I 
checked again prior to writing this email --- The only restriction is on 
Apple's firmware and boot ROM code..... which, I don't have to worry 
about copying/modifying/redistributing, because i'm not using it since 
i'm not running on Apple hardware. My system has its own boot ROM, and 
it's own firmware.


> You obviously think the trade off is worth it (preference is a great
> thing). Kudos, but if we may be pragmatic for a moment, MacOS X (and
> Darwin) are not free and barely open.
See above.


>
> You run a Unix-like OS... that's great. Please stop calling it open or
> free. It is okay that not everything is open and free, but some of us
> take the *free* in "Tucson Free Unix Group" seriously and would
> appreciate you not clouding the issue by invoking one of Apple's long
> dead pet projects.
>
Darwin is both free, and open. You apparently don't like it, which is 
fine... I don't like QNX, but i'm not going to throw a hissy when 
someone talks about something other than Linux. I've been a member of 
TFUG for about 10 years now. Back then, it was fun to go to a meeting 
and see people running different free Unix variants.. NetBSD, FreeBSD, 
Linux, you name it. Nowadays, we can add Darwin to that list.

> A challenge, in good fun, boot the current version of Darwin on your
> laptop... then tell me how good a FOSS OS it is, eh? Better yet,
> actually run Darwin day-to-day and make all of your previous points 
> valid.
The same GNU utilities you use in Linux are freely available and usable 
in Darwin. Want me to set up a shell account for you, so you can see for 
yourself, and not have to take my word for it?

Cheers,
Bowie

>
> Shawn
>
> - --
> Shawn Nock (OpenPGP: 0x4E549994)
> nock at fastmail dot fm
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